(Admin)Cricket Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 I have forwarded this zoo to Jay along with a recap of the issues. He will take a look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Admin)Cricket Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 From Jay: closedzooready07.zoo crashes at 2 times for me. I cannot say whether or not those are the same problems for zooguy. I used the Zoo Object List program to see what user made things the zoo uses and put versions of those things in my dlupdate folder. But those versions may be different than what zooguy used or zooguy might be using hacks that I am not using. The first crash occurs around January 14 of game year 13. That crash is caused by either particle's 1 level exhibit Concrete Fence or particle's 5 level exhibit Concrete Fence. Both are used by the zoo. They are configured as being indestructible, but apparently there is no such thing as an indestructible exhibit fence. When I made temporary changes to the configuration of those 2 fences, that first crash no longer occurred. Then the second crash occurs around January 24 of game year 13. ZT is trying to figure out how to get some staff member somewhere and is confused by the Limestone Rocks that are where the Zoo Entrance should be. When I removed those Limestone Rocks, the second crash no longer occurred. Also, I have some hacks to allow me to experiment with crashing zoos. One hack causes a zoo to have no staff members and another hack causes a zoo to have no guests. When I used the hack to have no staff members and left the Limestone Rocks where they are, that also caused the second crash to no longer occur. I cannot say which staff member or which task triggered that crash. But since I saw earlier messages about ZT not being able to get Zookeepers to various places, I suspect the second crash was when a fence deteriorated or became broke and ZT was trying to get a maintenance worker to it, but couldn't figure out a route with the Limestone Rocks there. But in any case, I feel the correct solution is to have a Zoo Entrance in the zoo. That way ZT knows what is inside the zoo and outside the zoo. I continue to feel all zoos should have a Zoo Entrance if there are staff, guests, or animals. There are other problems as well, although those other problems did not appear to cause crashes. Another ztd I have to help solve zoos that crash or have problems is one that shows tall yellow walls for all invisible fence pieces and shows tall blue walls for all invisible gate pieces. When I used this ztd, it looks like there are a number of invisible fence pieces in places that probably were not intended to be there, including blocking exhibit gates preventing Zookeepers from getting in or out of some exhibits. The animal configuration checkers also showed problems, including Errors. But it looks like those Errors are not causing the zoo to crash. One Error is for the Bald Eagle young. Although that is not causing a crash, the young are invisible because of the Error. The American Robin and Eastern Bluebird have an Error concerning when those birds are over water terrain. But that did not appear to cause a crash and the birds spent time staying in one place over the water terrain instead of moving around when they should. There are Errors in a few of hawkkeye's combined animal packs. But I believe this zoo is using other hawkkeye animals from those animal packs and not the animals with the Errors. Although it would not cause crashes, I also noticed that a number of icons in the animal list are not positioned correctly for a number of user made animals. A comment was made concerning objects next to the "Void" / map edge. Although not a problem with this zoo, some other zoos have a problem concerning the map edge. One problem is when a fence or wall is along the map edge. Another problem is when an exhibit fence is along the grid line one tile away from the map edge. But except for these problems, nothing else should cause problems along the map edge. In general, it is okay to put trees and scenery buildings along the map edge. As for the comment "I dont want to manually pull out every file and test", there is no other way to find what causes problems. I had to use that approach to find the crashes. But there are ways to help speed up the approach. That is why I have some hacks to help work with crashing zoos. And sometimes pulling out files in groups can speed up the approach. Sometimes running configuration checkers can speed up the approach. The rest of this message is for designers. Apparently having "cIndestructible = 1" in fence configuration does not do what designers think it does, including me. I and others thought that line makes an exhibit fence never become deteriorated or broken. But based on this zoo, apparently such exhibit fences can still become deteriorated or broken in some way, although maybe that line and other lines help reduce the chances. Even though I thought "cIndestructible = 1" makes an exhibit fence to not deteriorate or break, since I was not sure that was always true, I still included det, det30p, det30n, broke, broke30p, and broke30n lines in exhibit fences I configured with "cIndestructible = 1", just in case the fences do become deteriorated or break. Some other designers have done the same thing, such as the designer of the invisible fence. But those lines are not in the configuration for particle's exhibit fences. Since this zoo used pawl1x5x.ai and pawl1x1x.ai, I made test versions of particle's exhibit fences and that stopped one of the crashes. For these test versions, I added the following lines to the [f/Animations] section in pawl1x5x.ai (and similar in pawl1x1x.ai): det = objects/pawl1x5a/idle/idle.ani det30p = objects/pawl1x5a/idle30p/idle30p.ani det30n = objects/pawl1x5a/idle30n/idle30n.ani broke = objects/pawl1x5a/idle/idle.ani broke30p = objects/pawl1x5a/idle30p/idle30p.ani broke30n = objects/pawl1x5a/idle30n/idle30n.ani For completeness, here are the Errors, Warning counts, and Efficiency message counts shown by the animal configuration checkers for the ztds I used to test this zoo: BaldEagleGh_2007.ztd e85ebe28.uca date: Sun May 06 20:37:26 2007 ***** Error: ".ani" dir1 setting of e39136de is not in ztd. There were 15 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the ztd. There were 6 Warnings for ZT image files. There were 5 Warnings for the configuration. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the configuration. BlueJayGh_2006.ztd 0c1bee17.uca date: Fri Dec 29 22:40:18 2006 There were 17 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the configuration. There were 2 Efficiency messages for the configuration. BrownPelican_by_msc3323.ztd 0a07908b.uca date: Tue May 28 01:46:08 2019 There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. CedarWaxwingGh_2006.ztd a011e026.uca date: Fri Dec 29 23:06:10 2006 There were 39 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the configuration. gcAmerRobin.ztd 4719a057.uca date: Fri Sep 11 19:41:38 2009 ***** Error: cSwims setting is not 0, but there is no 'swim=' action setting. There were 23 Warnings for the configuration. There were 5 Efficiency messages for the configuration. gcEastrnBluebird.ztd 44455057.uca date: Fri Sep 11 19:22:50 2009 ***** Error: cSwims setting is not 0, but there is no 'swim=' action setting. There were 22 Warnings for the configuration. There were 5 Efficiency messages for the configuration. gcTrumpeterSwan.ztd 58794026.uca date: Sat Aug 29 15:39:04 2009 There were 20 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. greatblueheron.ztd 3b7992fb.uca date: Sat Jan 17 13:37:10 2004 There were 77 Warnings for ZT image files. There were 18 Warnings for the configuration. There were 2 Efficiency messages for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwytuna.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:20:16 2021 There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwrlion.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:21:02 2021 There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwpbt.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:21:34 2021 There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwmoonj.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:22:00 2021 There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwkoi.uca date: Wed Mar 31 19:48:42 2021 There were 4 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwremr.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:22:58 2021 There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwspdf.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:23:22 2021 There were 4 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwamack.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:23:44 2021 There were 4 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyesanimalsmarineupdatecorrected.ZTD hwacod.uca date: Tue Mar 30 21:24:10 2021 There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwangelf.uca date: Wed Dec 22 21:00:56 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwatlsal.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:55:32 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwtarpon.uca date: Wed Dec 22 21:01:38 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwcoeray.uca date: Tue Dec 21 18:16:24 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwcoguit.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:56:08 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwlcnray.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:56:26 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hweuflou.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:56:44 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hweusesg.uca date: Wed Dec 22 21:03:06 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwsebrgh.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:57:12 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwctorpe.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:57:30 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwmonkfi.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:57:50 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. There was 1 Efficiency message for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwnurseh.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:58:10 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwsndbar.uca date: Wed Dec 22 21:05:38 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwsburay.uca date: Wed Dec 22 21:06:28 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_aquarium_eastern_atlantic.ZTD hwthbray.uca date: Tue Mar 15 10:58:44 2022 ***** Error: animals/hwtnurse/m/m.pal is not in ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwtrswan.uca date: Tue Oct 19 21:50:52 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 18 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwgwteal.uca date: Thu Oct 14 23:08:44 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 4 Warnings for the ztd. There was 1 Efficiency message for the ztd. There were 14 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwcloon.uca date: Thu Oct 14 23:02:08 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwcangoo.uca date: Thu Oct 14 23:01:06 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwabiter.uca date: Wed Sep 08 00:02:24 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwaavoce.uca date: Thu Oct 14 22:58:26 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_north_american_marsh.ztd hwcayuga.uca date: Thu Oct 14 23:54:14 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There was 1 Warning for the configuration. There were 4 Efficiency messages for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwwndalb.uca date: Sun Oct 24 19:13:38 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 18 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwsttern.uca date: Sun Oct 24 19:56:22 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwkelpgo.uca date: Fri Oct 15 08:17:22 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There was 1 Efficiency message for the ztd. There were 18 Warnings for the configuration. There were 6 Efficiency messages for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwimshag.uca date: Fri Oct 15 08:16:38 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwgrgull.uca date: Sun Oct 17 00:10:00 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 19 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwempgoo.uca date: Thu Oct 14 23:05:22 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwbloyca.uca date: Thu Oct 14 23:00:28 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 17 Warnings for the configuration. hawkkeyes_seabirbs.ztd hwaynalb.uca date: Sun Oct 24 13:03:26 2021 ***** Error: animals/hwbhar/lsfmarkh/N.pal is not in ztd. There were 18 Warnings for the configuration. msc3323_papageitaucher.ztd 4623d299.uca date: Mon Jul 23 01:58:50 2018 There were 18 Warnings for the configuration. NorthAmericanRiverOtterGh_2004.ztd 9abdf0ea.uca date: Tue Jul 13 20:58:02 2004 There were 61 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the ztd. There were 2 Warnings for the configuration. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwadelie.uca date: Mon Jun 21 22:37:22 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwafricp.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:26:32 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwchinpg.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:26:18 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwerectp.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:24:28 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwgalapp.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:27:12 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwgentop.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:28:24 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwkingp.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:29:54 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwlitlep.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:31:20 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwmacarp.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:32:44 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwmglpng.uca date: Fri Sep 03 02:24:44 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwnrrcpg.uca date: Fri Sep 03 01:22:32 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwroyalp.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:33:52 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. PenguinsCombinedByHawkkeye.ztd hwylhdpn.uca date: Tue Jun 22 06:35:24 2021 There were 15 Warnings for the configuration. Quivaz's Beaver.ztd c8f5c313.uca date: Fri Jul 11 21:08:46 2003 There were 108 Warnings for the ztd. There were 3 Efficiency messages for the ztd. There was 1 Warning for ZT image files. There were 190 Warnings for the configuration. There were 16 Efficiency messages for the configuration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherL Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Cricket said: One hack causes a zoo to have no staff members and another hack causes a zoo to have no guests. Is the no guest hack available? That would make things so much nicer for myself and a few others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 No. They are tools Jay uses for checking how things work, and what is not working. You could pm him at DD and ask him directly if he would consider releasing them. Could be that there are specific ways of using them so as not to disrupt the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Designer)Z.Z. Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 "I and others thought that line makes an exhibit fence never become deteriorated or broken." Interesting. I wonder if the cIndestructable line is what keeps dinos from crashing through fences, rather than not deteriorating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooguy Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 I just saw the reply! Thank you so much for in the in-depth review and the news about the fences! Did anyone ask about the no guests hack? EDIT: Woah, the beaver has so many problems (I started to figure this out when sometimes they would stop moving) EDIT: I like to use tall walls, would copying/pasting the code above stop the crashes or would it be possible to rerelease the walls so that do not crash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherL Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 The No Guest Hack in available here: http://www.ztcdd.org/DG/index.php?topic=6051.0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooguy Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Update: Tried a new zoo with no guests, original map. zoo entrance and fired all maintenance workers but there is still a hard crash at the end of year 7. Could be invisible fences maybe. Zoo Tycoon would be my favorite game if these zoos did not die just as I put the finishing touches on them. Also, I am so confused, I get messages telling me that an exhibit is blocked off but zoo keepers can still enter and exit the exhibits. What does 'blocked off' really mean I wonder. Sorry for the necro post, this is more me thinking out loud than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Perhaps save with different name at each save, even if that is just putting a number at the end of the name. That way you can return to the previous zoo or post both for someone to check. What zoo map were you using? There are some map updates over at DG for some of the original maps. On 9/26/2022 at 7:29 AM, zooguy said: EDIT: I like to use tall walls, would copying/pasting the code above stop the crashes or would it be possible to rerelease the walls so that do not crash? Eventually I will do a fence hack on all the my user made fences that are not in the Tek SuperHack. That would be all the Tall walls and also all the coloured dino walls and a few others that I have done. If you read the additional info at DD you should avoid files the contain "Error" Unfortunately I have not done most of Hawkkeye's animals yet. A word of advice if you are downloading from his google drive. His ztds do not contain his initials so that would cause a .ztd name conflict in some cases. The dhole was one where ZA also have or had dhole.ztd. Also if he had zipped them you would be able to test the file to make sure it downloaded correctly and was not corrupted and the ztd date would remain the same. There are a few of Borsato's files that have an internal id conflict with the animal he used as a base. I am working on a list of those. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Admin)Savannahjan Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Sometimes there may be pooh right in front of the gate and you might get that message. Also, there have been times that I accidentally put two pieces of fence on that square; one being the gate, but the other is blocking entry. It might be possible that the animal is standing in front of the gate, but I'm not sure they can actually stand in that square. Finally, I've seen the zookeeper place food right in front of the gate and then got this message. Since I'm using the Superhack in my game, the food can be removed and the zookeeper will place it again. Or maybe, it's some other issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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